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Rebooting The Gut, Fasting, Fat Loss & More!

My guest on today’s podcast, Joel Greene, already had his 10,000 hours in before I was even born.

  • In the 1970s, he was interval training.
  • In 1979, he was doing Olympic lifts 3 hours every night.
  • In the 80s, he began studying MCTs.
  • In 1990, he began studying the keto diet.
  • In the early 90s, he was doing what would be called intermittent fasting today.
  • In the mid 90s, he experienced the rebound from chronic starvation. You read this today for this reason.
  • In the late 90s, he went through his clean eating phase, his macro phase, and his ancestral diet phase.
  • By 2001, he had his first nutrition website publishing cutting edge research.
  • By 2006, he came to the end of all the above and discovered none of it worked over time and under real-life pressure.
  • In 2007, he authored the first article to the health and fitness community based on the new science linking gut bacteria and obesity.
  • In 2008, his website lookcut.com hit #2 on Google for weight loss—with over 1,000 original groundbreaking articles that today represent many of the most widely copied ideas in nutrition.
  • In 2009, he launched the world’s first diet system based on targeting gut bacteria.
  • In 2010, he was implementing signal activation of the AMPK pathway. The gurus only began speaking to AMPK in 2017.
  • By 2013, he had the world’s largest body of anecdotal outcomes for body composition targeting the gut bacteria.
  • In 2013, he published the first article to the health and fitness community on the dangers of MCT oil supplementation.

Today, at 53, on 1 workout a week, eating whatever, whenever, with no drugs, SARMS, prohormones, or ergogenic aids ever, he is the world leader in hacking the body. He is the real deal. He has done it longer and always been far ahead. He looks it, he lives it. What the gurus say is impossible, he was living every day before they were gurus.

He has hacked peak human…

Working out once per week…

Eating whatever, whenever…

…and does it all on fast food!

He is the future of real-world health and nutrition, today.

Joel is the creator of the VEEP Nutrition System, the world’s first commercially available program based on targeting gut communities to effect biomarkers. He is a featured author, speaker, and guest in top tier publications like Muscle and Fitness, 24 Hour Fitness Digital Magazine, CBS Online, Superhuman Radio, and beyond. His system has also been featured on the Dr. Phil Show, where it has delivered astounding life-changing results.

He is the future of real-world health and nutrition—today, and his new book was one of the most nitty-gritty deep dives into “rebooting your body” that I’ve ever read. The Immunity Code is simply a new paradigm and an entirely new way to think about caring for your body. The new goal is learning to control immunity, health, and aging using new science-based techniques (or hacks, if you will), to steer immunity for health, and to slow or even reverse aging. ​

This book will change everything you know about your body. Starting with simple, easy to-dos that build one on top of the other, you will emerge with a powerful understanding of how your body really works and how to control it over time, in the real world. Simply put, you will jump 10 years ahead of anything else on the shelf today.

Click here to get The Immunity Code: The New Paradigm for Real Health & Radical Anti-Aging now (not available on Amazon, but is available with this link).

During the first part of this discussion, you’ll discover:

-A peek into a typical morning for Joel…8:40

  • “Fasting amplification” the day prior and the morning: Ensure signaling pathways for fasting are working (without actually fasting)
  • Timing of the workout (4-6 am)
  • Berberine
  • Apigenin
  • Replicating starvation at the optimal time of day
  • One bodybuilding workout per week: Deadlifts and sprints
  • Difference between a “young” body and a “fitness” body

-Joel’s history in the realm of biohacking…14:45

  • Began workout out at a young age watching kids shows on TV
  • Frank Shorter, silver medalist in the 1972 Olympics marathon, began a running fad in the U.S.
  • Joel lived in San Jose, CA, a mecca of sorts for athletics
  • Consumers were told all fat was bad; a product called Metabolol 2 by Champion Nutrition promoted fats as a good thing.
  • MCTs – fatless fats
  • Keto diet became popular in the ’90s
  • MetRX – promoted by Jeff Everson
  • Short-term gain, long-term consequences
  • Early 2000s – went from a ripped dude to overweight, chronically stressed while leading a tech company
  • Article on the gut biome
  • This led to the “Daisy Cutter” protocol
  • Key was understanding how to affect gut flora so that the body extracts fewer calories from food
  • Article in Muscle & Fitness magazine on L. Reuteri

-Ben’s process for writing a book…29:15

  • Write in chunks
  • Give a timeline (2-3 years)
  • Treat each chapter like an article: skeleton, bullet points, etc.
  • A new cookbook is upcoming (written during quarantine of 2020)


-Why eating apple skins is Joel’s first advice for his readers…34:45

  • Breaking down how the gut gets built: substrate and immunity
  • Apple skins contain pectin (good for high-fat diets)
  • Polymerized procyanidins combined with pectins produce 8x akkermansia bacteria than any other food
  • Target LPS (lipopolysaccharides) directly
  • Human milk oligosaccharide (HMOs) are found in mother’s milk for infants
  • HMOs:
    • Pair perfectly with apple skins for gut health
    • Act as “decoys”; bind pathogens and viruses
    • Drive akkermansia production
    • Steers the gut toward immunity
    • Steer the macrophages toward restoration of gut lining (with apple skins)
  • Red phenols in the apple peels contain substrate that feeds akkermansia and bifidobacteria

-The two bacteria to focus on for resetting the gut…45:30

  • Akkermansia and bifidobacteria
  • Common in lean people and for longevity
  • Find proper balance in everything: right amount, at the right time, in the right way
  • Akkermansia and bifidobacteria are common among lean people
    • Akkermansia maintains mucin layer of gut surface (calorie controller)
    • Bifidobacteria activates genes that keep a person lean
    • Involved with energy production in cells
  • Fasting-induced adipose factor
  • Bifidobacteria dies off with age, and corresponding energy levels
  • Don’t supplement directly with butyrate (can strengthen cancerous cells’ resistance)
  • HMO powder (PureHMO brand)
  • Red phenol powder
  • Food is the best transporter

-Why Joel is not a fan of probiotics but loves prebiotics…58:25

  • When having clients use probiotics, they experienced brain fog, SIBO, etc. and it stopped when off probiotics
  • Very difficult to control where they’ll open up in the gut
  • Paper in Journal of Gastroenterology on probiotic use
  • Structure-function is why probiotics can’t replicate food
  • Food, when done right, is capable of things not possible with capsules and supplements
  • Prebiotic foods: semi-green bananas, grapefruit,
  • Causally incorrect notion of the function of food
  • Order of operations is missing (related to structure-function of the gut)
    • MCT1 transporter doesn’t work when gut mucosae are inflamed
    • TNF-A must be cleared before fiber can work (fiber makes an issue worse if not)
    • Clear inflammatory mediators, then rescue butyrate transport
  • Analogy of using the wrong fuel and wondering why the engine won’t work
  • 2017 study on gluten intolerance – dysbiotic gut bacteria profile characterized by decreased butyrate production
  • 3 genomes interacting that run the body are in the bacterial genome, which can be acquired via the food you eat

-How orange juice in the morning helps to heal the gut…1:14:30

  • Foods have unique functions that work independently of calories
  • People’s personal biases and ideologies skew their thinking regarding the efficacy of certain foods
  • Ascorbate in the orange juice helps to reduce inflammation in the gut
    • Unique foods possess unique functional properties; work independent of calories – true in the plant kingdom, true with meats, true in fats
  • Research suggests ascorbate may have properties that reduce the spread of certain viruses

-How to lose fat by eating cheesecake…1:20:15

  • Real-world parameters regarding food consumption (time, availability, etc.) are problematic
  • The body burns and stores fat multiple times and at different times during the day
  • Ben’s cheesecake recipe
  • Eating meals in sequences of 3: develop a natural rhythm of burning and losing fat
  • Fat gain is inevitable, however, you can time it during the times of day the body burns fat vs. storing
  • Use fat loss strategies in other meals throughout the day
  • Adding whey protein, shifting time consumption, temperature of baked potato fluctuates into fat loss friendly

-Whether or not cold thermogenesis is an effective weight loss strategy…1:29:40

  • Cold is a foundational toolset (different functions for different purposes)
  • Cold flips macrophages from inflammatory to non-inflammatory state
  • Cold drives down akkermansia (body needs more energy to survive in cold)
  • FGF 21 induces a “futile cycle” in adipose mass
  • Shrinking fat cells cause a regain of fat mass
  • Cold is good strategically, not as a permanent practice
  • Hack to amplify cold thermogenesis: topical application of menthol where adipose mass is
  • “Combination therapy” – fasting, cold induction, menthol

-How to mitigate the effects of cycling fat loss strategies…1:38:15

  • Fat loss becomes more and more difficult with age
  • Immune-centric paradigm is necessary for fat loss in the 21st Century
  • Change paradigm on how we view fat loss
  • “Fat loss is an injury”
  • Fat is a system of multiple components:
    • Collagen fibers in extracellular matrix
    • Fat cells contain tiny immune cells
    • Preadipocytes are types of stem cells
  • Mechanobiology – transfer of physical forces in the fat cells
  • Traction stress injury
  • Energy gap problem – you want to eat more, but harder to get full and lower metabolism

Click here for the full written transcript of this podcast episode.

Resources from this episode:

– Joel Greene:

Podcast with Dr. Jack Kruse on cold thermogenesis

– Supplements:

– Studies:

– Other Resources:

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Do you have questions, thoughts, or feedback for Joel or me? Leave your comments below and one of us will reply!

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